Quinn is an embarrassment to the State of Illinois.

It's time to deport all Illegal's.

Well said and mine too.

Couldn't have said it better. What about helping the families that are citizens and that are here legally? Quinn states that it will help the economy because these people will be able to get better jobs, earn money and spend it. We don't know that they will stay here after we educate them. We don't know that they will keep the money here. How do we know they won't take advantage of this and just leave and go back to their native country? We need to start worrying a little bit more about our own. Sorry.

Um, undocumented immigrants can't vote. Just saying.

Denise ~

Legally they can't, but they do. Why not? Break one law, break 'em all.

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2006/08/can_illegal_imm.html

Luis Gutierrez encourages it. All they have to do then is mail in their ballot.

Blame anyone you like, yet how many petitions have you sent to Illinois and US Government concerning the situation? It's also tied into the Union uprising. You can get an illegal for under a couple of bucks, and AMERICANS do. Killing our way of life for everyone! We have kids in college also, and they have excellent grades, not ONE American entity came forward to say, we have a few bucks left over. Yet the Sun-Times carried a story about an alderman who gave out six free 4 year illegal college rides to connected Americans, and I saw not one comment in the paper from the public. Stand up to be heard!

Sorry that happened JV, but good for you. That's the real American spirit, if you cant do it one way, try another. Yet the situation SHOULD NOT EXIST. If only the pols would quit stealing for a year or so, this so called recession would all be over!

DEPORT ALL ILLEGALS. Just because a person can sneak across the border, doesn't mean they have a right to be here!

Young lady this D.A. bill will help criminal aliens to avoid deportation, therefore it is only logical that "We the People" should indeed "worry" about the unnecessary spending (wasting) of our tax dollars.
You see, Falicitas, it's common knowledge that illegal aliens = a terrible financial burden to the United States of America.

Thank you for providing your first and last name. I respect you for that. jms

FC are you here legally? Were your parents immigrants? And where does the grant money come from? If the grant money comes from the federal or state government, then it is our tax $. Also, if "gifts" to the DREAM act are considered gifts to a 501(c) (3) charity, then they would be deductible and thus reduce the taxes donators would pay. Since fewer taxes would be collected, the rates would need to be increased keep spending constant.

Thats fine than you find one and but him thru school. Do your homework there is many tax dollars in this. This is wrong and is forced on us. If voted on by the people it would not come even close to pass. I am a middle class worker with 2 kids in collage at a total of 50,000.00 . It is unfair to the children who can here legally. When you reward people with free money, it makes more insted of less ellegals.

So, as an American, if I should encourage my kids to steal, no one should take offense? Interesting and very backward thinking.

Dont know exactly how to make this point better, , but: ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL no matter how you try to dress is up and call it a good thing. This country is working it's way to a race war. The only people who :"approve of this are the ones taking the free ride. Mark my words. One day the headlines will blast out the story that the pols care nothing about, the children of illegal parents. again, illegal is illegal is illegal. The word has a clear cut definition, even the illlegal parents must inderstand.ILLEGAL means you're committing a crime. And we all know it Those college years will not count in the real world, trust me..

Point taken Deb. But it's not a case of choosing immigrant's children over a drug addict's children. The DREAM Act is designed to help a specific group--immigrants, and people/organizations/groups make their own choice to fund it and support this particular vision. I do take offense to your comment on giving help "to immigrants, legal or not". Unless you're a native American, my friend, you or your ancestors were at one time, an immigrant.

I'm with Felicitas on this issue. None of us, with the expection of the decedents of the indegious peoples of the land we now call America, really and truly "belongs" here. The rest of us, including Deb, are here thanks to the rape of the land and peoples that were here before "America" came to be known as "America."

Again, I agree with you totally.

Do you realize that many of the readers (probably the majority, since the IL majority is Blue/Dem, according to votes) of this discussion are laughing at YOU, Joseph M. Spretnjak? Of course some of us voted for one or more of the leaders you have named. Like the alternatives to these leaders are NOT crooks? Please... every politician has his/her faults. The Republican alternatives are so extreme and intolerant and far far greedier than the Democrats and far more crooked than the democrats (think Koch) that there really is no alternative but to vote for the people who will do the least amount of damage to our nation and world. Last election, and it looks like the one coming up too, there is no alternative to vote for anyone but a current Republican candidate.

Just when did the illegals get so "got to have it" about college? Is there even one school of higher learning in Mexico, so they can stay home and feed and educate these wonderful illegal children? These folks do nothing for themselves, yet want to be first in line for any goodie that goes with good parents, and jobs that pay money.
They've had a very long time to play catch-up with the hated Americans, and can't seem to figure it all out.

Jenny my dear, even though I agree with your position, it's very important that you properly identify yoursef. It's only fair. jms

I agree with emmybee. It's unsafe to reveal your identity on a local forum like this.

Joseph M. Spretnjak my dear, how about being a little less condescending and sexist. (It is NOT important that anyone on this discussion properly ID him- herself. What's fair is that we not call each other names, like "idiot," as you refer to those who may have voted for one of the leaders you name in another post. Grow up, Joseph M. Spretnjak. And play nice.

This the big problem with PATCH---we get people on here who are only interested in starting an argument on silliness....versus having a discussion on the issue at hand

Great point about the soldiers. I wonder how many other countries would offer us these opportunities, or would they toss us in jail for being spies?

Why would the state of Illinois want to be involved in a 'private scholarship fund' ?

If you properly identify yourself, BHF, I'll be more than happy to "properly" respond to you. jms

BlackHawks Fan, I beg you not to reveal your true identity for fear dear Joseph M. Spretnjak might spew more ridiculousness in response to your query. ; )

I think the states first private scholarship fund failed under Alexi. Bright Starts anyone? That fund was suppose to help parents secure a college eduction for working folks. If this fund is managaged by the state it will fail. Dont get too exicited about this. The money will go to those families who are politically connected. This is just a media blitz for the HIspanic vote.

Nuts. A thirty year old parent has paid many times into the system, waiting for his kids turn. Then its stolen by criminals, and we're supposed to say "thank you? Go home and build your own college, and the kids won't have to learn another language. Undocumented children are young criminals.

What a horribly inhumane attitude.

There are provisions in the Dream Act that require graduates to give back to "pay" for the funding they received to go to college. Documented residents have similar opportunities. For example, our children can get free tuition if they enroll in an Education school and spend a certain number of years teaching in a Chicago Public School. There are also Peace Corps and Military opportunities and lots more for free tuition. There are so many scholarship opportunities for documented residents. You just have to know where to find them. High School counselors can help. College/University academic advisers can help.

jodi,
You proposal sounds fair to me.

You needn't fear disclosing your identity B.H.F. I promise not to hurt you. jms

Deb, I believe what offended Felicitas was the part of your comment where you wrote immigrants, whether legal or illegal, should not be entitled to tax dollars. I am guessing your family originally came here legally. Would you have objected to your grandparents receiving aid or college funding via tax dollars if they needed it?

That being said, your comment below about Muslim women is a perfect example of people speaking about things that they do not understand. Although there is one country (Saudi Arabia) in which women are not allowed to drive, all other Middle Eastern countries do NOT have this restriction. Most Muslim women driving around here are not Saudi Arabian and not once have I seen a face covering locally. I do agree that anyone wearing anything that hampers their vision should not be driving.

Back to the Mom's Council question...I do not see why the government is getting involved in this when it seems that there must be private citizens or organizations that clearly wish to sponser illegal immigrants' education. Why not establish a private fund that is not government related? The simple fact is that our government is not deporting all illegal immigrants. Many have and will live here for their entire lives. If private citizens or organizations want to help them further their education, that is their business. I just do not see why the government is backing this.

I applaud Nabeha for this post. This is a perfect example of why it is so important for Americans to embrace our temporary- and undocumented residents.

Open your hearts and minds, folks. I promise you that it will improve your health and appearance at the very least.

Too bad you don't know much about American history. Yes, most of our parents came from other countries. AND did all the legal work necessary. But there's rules and regs to follow. One doesn't just walk in and say give me all the goodies I never worked for. Schools were built, teachers trained, through tax money, even the slowest immigrant knows he never paid a dime into the pot. It's not his stash. His stash is probably being sold near a school.

If you talk to immigrants that became citizens in the proper manner, they are just as upset about this as those of us that were born here.

I think I am sensing a little bit of racism here....come on, stop being so close-minded. We as a country are after all a melting pot of multiple backgrounds. I am sure there are many rituals in your family that you honor for holidays/get togethers that are not necessarily American but have to do with your family's heritage. We are the home of the free, people are allowed to embrace where they came from.

Free for some, costly for others.

Tell it, Naivety! I absolutely agree with you!

I agree about if you are here legally, you should get all the rights and benefits of the legal citizen. If you are here illegally, and truly the government knows or can find out who you are, you should be deported.

American workers started to run into trouble when untrained Mexicans came here and accepted jobs they coulldn't do for cheap wages. And theiy're very good at being subservient, which some Americans love. Their wages were so low, nothing could be taken out for taxes. The economy went into freefall, what with that and other killing blows, and has not recovered what with all our pols stealing everypenny they can lay their hands on.

I have no problem helping out legal immigrants. Just seems discriminatory to those that aren't immigrants. Why offer something special for a specific group. As was mentioned before, there are numerous scholarship opportunities. Everyone should have the same chance.

Who among us is really supposed to be here? The indigenous, that's who.

Bravo, Deb!

Wasn't there some legislator that wanted to offer illegal immigrants citizenship if they enlisted in the armed forces?

That is one question that needs to be answered. Also, I don't understand why they feel ILLEGAL anybody should get anything other than a trip back to their home countryor some kind of lock up. Or is there a new definition of illegal?

Liberalism is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights. Seems to me that closed-mindedness is the real disorder.

I'm with you, Patch Reader.

Then I must wonder why you fear expressing your opinion?Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out the "truly" racist. Protecting what you fought and paid for is NOT racist, it's protective of your family.

So, Classy Patch Reader, you're illegal also?A comment is racist wjhen it's incorrect with no effort to be honest. The posts here are honest, if you like them or not!

Bulls-eye on the flag of hatred.

I don't know what you mean when you say those that are here illegally should be given the chance to obtain legal status. How would you do this? There are those that are sitting in their native countries trying to do things the right way. You wouldn't have someone that is here illegally jump in front of them just because they are already here would you?
I don't mean to be argumentative, just asking. There really isn't a good solution, I don't think.

The 14th Amendment was one of two amendments passed after the Civil War to settle the legal status of freed slaves. None of the amendments drafters intended to grant citizenship to the children of illegal aliens. Section 1 of the 14th Amendment has the qualifying phrase: "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Which Senator Jacob Merritt Howard said "this will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, (or) who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."

Thanks for this post. : )

yes, thanks for this fact. I'm hoping most folks here also remember Bush was solidly against harsh measures and border issues.
This is not a racial nor party-affiliation topic. I believe a few folks have hit the main issue: If private funders want to do this, there is no need for state support. Let the philanthropists find their cause and move forward quietly as most do.

Thanks, Dan. Being factual is always the best way to go. I noted that the link you posted is from an article written in July of 2010. Here's one from this past month -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-plans-to-make-it-a-priority-to-deport-illegal-immigrants-who-are-convicted-criminals/2011/08/18/gIQAxKHxNJ_story.html

It is presented in a positive way, but it is really a back-door amnesty. Plus, take note who approves of it...

"Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., a longtime supporter of immigration overhaul and the DREAM Act, applauded the policy change."

That says everything we need to know about it.

Emmybee is absolutely correct. It's foolish to reveal your full name on a forum that targets Tinley Park, IL, or any specific city or village. It's so easy to find your address and other even more personal information with a name and general location.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. The ones raping the country today are the ones that are taking oaths against homosexuality and religions other than Christianity. It is the intolerant of this nation that are raping America today.

I would rather see a US born child of an undocumented resident get a chance to continue his or her education than I would an entitlement- attitude, near-flunky food-stamp recipient get federally funded chance at higher education. Think about it. Who has the better attitude to improve tomorrow? Certainly NOT the welfare recipient. The children of undocumented residents KNOW that the opportunities here mean a better life. I'm ALL for the Dream Act. It will help America and it will help Mexico and other countries that are struggling with bigger economic and civil war issues than we have here. What's good for Mexico, for example, will be good for America. I would love for the children of undocumented residents to get a great education here and go back to their parents' native land and improve the lives for those who didn't have the same opportunities. In the long run, this scenario will better America. Those who cannot see past the blinders of racism and hatred for those spending tax dollars are just plain closed-minded. (By the way, undocumented residents pay taxes. It's not like their stealing money out of our pockets. They contribute to Uncle Sam every time they spend their money on food, shelter, clothing, utilities, etc.)

Southside--while you make some very valid points, it concerns me that just because someone doesn't agree with all of the points, you think they are guided by racism and hatred. And that simply just isn't true.

Bill - That's correct. America has become a magnet for illegals, and Illinois will become the magnet within America, thanks to Quinn.

Darryl - I have used that same analogy about the uninvited house guest. With some people, you have to personalize it before they really understand.

Seriously, Dutch Oven Chef? This is just about the most blatantly racist post on this forum. You might just as well call yourself Klansperson.

Thankfully, our world is become more and more diverse. More people from nations of color, such as India, are finding their way to the States. More Caucasians are procreating with people of color. More Caucasians are learning languages other than English-U.S.Embrace it or be miserable for the remainder of your life. Color my world!

Again, emmybee is correct here... Who among us would punish the child for the crimes of a documented parent? It makes no difference. A human being is a human being.

emmybee and SouthSide ~

It's not about punishing, it's about righting a wrong. The parents put their child(ren) in harm. Not anyone else, nor were they forced.

Can anyone give me any other example where strangers should be forced to take care of a family when the parents make bad choices?

People get divorced, kids are affected. Parents drink, kids are affected. Parents commit crimes, kids are affected. On and on.

Why, in this case, are the guilty ones somehow made out to be victims? (The parents, I'm referring to.) It is on them to make things right, not anyone else at all.

JennyC--that is exactly it. I dont get a free pass because my ex-husband has decided to not pay court ordered school fees. Maybe they can give him money for breaking the law too?? Just as crazy to reward illegal immigrants as it would be to reward deadbeat dads.

emmybee ~

I didn't mean to imply that you personally had said that the parents were victims. But people on your 'side' like to paint the picture that way. Saying that we are the ones who are trying to break up the families, simply because we want our laws adhered to.
It's a shameful tactic.

You are right in saying that I am not for rewarding those that have broken the law and resent the government taking from me and giving to them.
I give monthly to a short list of charities of my choosing. I help families, friends and neighbors when their need comes to my attention. And that's how it should be. Not taking so-called charity by force.

I am glad we are still able to voice our opinions. Yes, we disagree but I welcome the opportunity to speak my piece and to hear what others have to say.

The issue is about affording children the opportunity to become educated.

Our tax dollars are also spent on criminals committing much worse offenses than simply crossing the border and getting paid $3/hour to work jobs that no one else will work.

Undocumented residents pay taxes each and every time they purchase food, shelter, clothing, etc. They're paying into the system too.

SouthSide ~

The only reason no one else will work those jobs is because they pay only $3.00 an hour. If everyone refused until the pay was raised to at least minimum wage, then the employer would comply. What you bring up is exactly another way illegals hurt our system.

Jenny C~ The businesses that pay $3/hour are the likes of Oberwiess, the wanna-be senator, one of the most racist pigs in Illinois. They are also the businesses that would otherwise have to shut their doors because they cannot afford to pay more than $3/hour--and if these business shut their doors, the documented residents employed by these businesses would be unemployed... It is a vicious circle that cannot be fixed over night or over one presidential term. And what of the leaders in our nation that employ housekeepers that are undocumented residents. And some of these upstanding Americans don’t even pay their housekeepers… they give them a shed to live in and threaten their lives to keep quiet... Undocumented residents are actually helping our country in many ways. And they are surviving, which would be impossible if they hadn't come here. Bigots don't see it that way, but it's the truth. I'd love to see the undocumented residents that commit crimes (unrelated to being here "illegally") get sent back to their country but those who are working hard just to survive are welcome here, in my opinion. I'd rather they be here than be dead as a result of war in their country or starvation in their country. We are all brothers and sisters, after all.

SouthSide ~

I am no fan of Oberweiss. And I am not an economics scholar, but I believe that the taxes and regulations on businesses here are largely to blame for what you describe.
We should take a close look at Texas and see how things are done there.

I don't want to see anyone die, but I sincerely doubt that sending those here illegally back would result in their deaths. If that is the case, who are these people sending money back home to?

DEPORT ILLEGALS

And payroll taxes (few undocumented immigrants are paid under the table), and social security that they'll never collect. (Of course, if Boehner has his way, 30-something documented people like me won't, either).

Denise ~

Just reported today by the Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/undocumented-workers-got-billions-from-irs-in-tax-credits-audit-finds/2011/03/23/gIQAhtaKvJ_blog.html?hpid=z3'%20rel='nofollow

Seems like these Illegal aliens are doing pretty well for themselves, receiving billions from the IRS in tax credits last year. They just keep finding ways.

If only it was as simple as that... The statement, "enough is enough, get a job," needs to come from a parent. That said, the gravy train should cease after ONE generation. But how on God's Green Earth can this be accomplished? My suggestion: BIRTH CONTROL. If that doesn't work, if we stop the welfare, where will these people go? Catholic Charities homeless shelters and the like. This means we have to rely more and more on individual donations. With the greedy attitude of the Rick Perrys and Michelle Bachmanns of our nation, I simple cannot see that donations to nonprofits is going to work. Those who are already giving to charities cannot afford to give any more. I know I cannot afford to give any more! The short term solution, in my opinion, is to lift the tax breaks on the super rich and the big businesses that have shipped so many of our jobs overseas. But with the current state of majority rule (Boehner and his bunch) this is not going to happen. The future looks bleak... unless of course we get some fresh minds in higher education... minds of those who are dependent upon the Dream Act, for example...

DEPORT ALL ILLEGALS

I agree with you on this one (all but the last sentence... I think other states are far more screwed up than IL)!

So true, so true. Just how they are above being affected by ObamaCare. They have made such a sweet deal for themselves.
And yes, that means both parties.
I am also embarrassed to say I live here. If anyone asks and I state it, I always follow with an 'I'm sorry'. I usually get bashed by someone who thanks me for sending the country Obama.
I have been working on my husband to leave here for years. He is starting to waver. When Brady lost to Quinn, I thought he was going to cave right then and there.

I read more than one review of Joseph M. Spretnjak. Ha ha ha... Not such a wise move to use your real name. Probably not good for business.

Some people don't like doing business with extremists. IL is a blue state, after all.

Good point, a privately funded and administered fund would not need to dip into our pockets or have governmental approval.

"Take care of our own," in my opinion, means taking care of human beings regardless of what document(s) one has to prove or disprove legal residency.

There is no bigotry and hatred of mankind. U.S. citizens would just like to see the Immigration Laws obeyed. The U.S. takes in more 'LEGAL' immigrants than the rest of the world combined.

nick, you crack me up. "The world combined"? Hilarious. I'd like to see your source on that one!

2009 survey

A 2009 survey by Gallup found roughly 700 million adults would like to migrate to another country permanently if they had the chance.[6] Nearly one-quarter (24%) of these respondents, which translates to more than 165 million adults worldwide, named the United States as their desired future residence, while an additional 6.5% of respondents, representing an estimated 45 million, chose Canada. The other top desired destination countries (those where an estimated 25 million or more adults would like to go) were predominantly European.

Dear Blackhawks fan,

I don't think any of these responses are hate filled. We cannot possibly take care of everyone. There has to be limitations. We are broke. These people are just making fun of all the stuff we give out to people who break the law. They are frustrated. Just because people are trying to better themselves by coming here, doesn't justify breaking the law. It would be nice if we had unending resources but we don't

Again, nick, you crack me up. I'd love to see your source on that.

Joseph raises a good point

Large quantities Illegal aliens started coming to the US in the late 1970's. Before that white and black citizens did the jobs that many claim that white people wouldn't do. The jobs were done before, and they can be done again if Illegal's are deported. If illegal's are deported, employers would have to pay a higher wage to attract a work force.

dan: many historians claim that even the so called 'native Americans' walked across the land bridge from Asia a few thousand years ago, that would make them immigrants too.

For something to be considered illegal, there has to be a law declaring it so. I don't believe at the time the "white man" set foot here there were any such laws. Someone feel free to cite a document if you know of one.

Yes, I am going to support the student that is a citizen but barely graduated from high school. It is widely known that kids from lower economic backgrounds don't perform as well as middle to upper class kids in school. You can also find information about the lives that some of these kids live; they may have been born with a substance in their system, they come from single parent homes, abuse, etc. Hard to concentrate in school when your belly is empty. This isn't the fault of these children. There have been plenty of people that were less than stellar students that went on to college to change their lives around. Who is going to decide who is "DESERVING" to go to school?

The U.S. has a responsibility to protect the economic interests of all of its citizens, yet the immigration system, which adds hundreds of thousands to the labor force each year, is bringing in workers faster than jobs are being created. Moreover, only a small portion of admissions are based on skills or educational criteria, creating an enormous glut of low-skilled workers who struggle to rise above poverty. In 1995, the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform recommended curtailing family-based immigration and replacing the “failed and expensive regulatory system [for skill-based immigration] with one that is market-driven.”

Tell us, Denise. What would Jesus do? Show us in the Bible where we are encourage to break the law. I have found otherwise...

Titus 3:1 "Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good,"
1Peter 2:13 "Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority,"

The Bible is clear on that subject.

And why do you resort to insults? It is a childish argument to say that anyone who believes differently than you is hate-filled. I could turn around and ask why do you hate America and her laws? It gets us nowhere.

My very best friend is Mexican in heritage. Her father came here illegally from Mexico, in the 60's. She knows it was wrong. And she is the sweetest person I know. So really, you don't have a leg to stand on with your not-so-well-thought-out arguments.

Your characterization of illegal immigrants as "brave" and "heroic" is an insult to the millions of people that immigrate to this country legally.

So, Jenny C, you're using the "My comments aren't hate-filled because I have a Mexican friend" defense? Please.

Are you honestly saying then that YOU'VE never broken the law? Never exaggerated an expense on your taxes, never drove over the speed limit, never forgot to license your house cat?

Our economy is not weak because of undocumented immigrants. It's weak because of lack of tax revenue. Anyone who convinces you otherwise is an evil genius.

And I believe Jesus was famous for his kind, non-judgmental attitude. You can find a bible quote for every occasion, but living LIKE Jesus is more Christian than finding a bible quote to justify hate-filled nonsense. But as long as you're friends with a Mexican, well, then by all means. Spew away!

Denise ~

Let me help you, since you seem incapable of following a conversation.

You, in your condescending tone, had 'implored' anyone to have a conversation who doesn't look like me. I responded by stating that I do at least that. It was to show you that you are being racist by assuming that everyone here that disagrees with you looks like you and doesn't converse with people of a different color. A person's true prejudices come out when they believe they are talking down to their inferiors.

Whether or not I've ever gone over the speed limit is irrelevant. Point is that I have never expected anyone to pay for or even excuse my 'indiscretions'.

"Our economy is not weak because of undocumented immigrants. It's weak because of lack of tax revenue." You have got to be kidding me! Yes, we need to be taxed more. I can't believe you said that. So sure, let's pay for the illegals to break our laws and live here better or easier than many of our citizens.

And how convenient... you bring up Jesus yet not be able to find a Biblical quote to back your irrational stance. Jesus loved everyone, showed mercy, and also sent those who repented away with the words 'Go, and sin no more'. He did not say live and let live, or that anyone was special and above the law. God is a God of love, and of order and justice. Everything He did and said reflected that.

Jenny C,
I did not and will not say that individuals need to be taxes more. What I said was the economy is suffering due to low tax revenue--this includes people who are unemployed, thus not pitching in (or pitching in much) via payroll taxes. Also, corporations should be paying their fair share, but instead they choose to back lobbyists and politicians instead of just paying that money into the system for everyone to benefit.

The idea that you think an average undocumented worker in this country "lives better than us" shows that you don't know anyone personally who's been in that situation. It's easy and understandable to dislike and fear the unknown; I wish I could tell you about some of my friends and former coworkers. You'd be embarrassed for saying that.

Denise ~

"corporations should be paying their fair share,"

Yes, like GE.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

Or how about billionaire Warren Buffet who hasn't paid his taxes in almost ten years...
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/warren_buffett_hypocrite_E3BsmJmeQVE38q2Woq9yjJ

It is estimated that Buffet could owe as much as a billion dollars. I'd say that would come in handy right about now.

Now as far as you quoting me saying... "lives better than us", that is out and out dishonest. My exact quote was "live here better or easier than many of our citizens". That is true. They get free healthcare, food stamps, free education (as per this article), etc. I personally know citizens who struggle without these things, their lives are difficult and they are always stressed.

We cannot save the world. But we can help our citizens, and should. If there is anything left over, then reach out and help others (but not reward lawbreakers).

You must really dislike Ronald Reagan.

Undocumented people don't collect social security.

I thought Obama grew up and spent his formative years in Indonesia?

Agree!

"Reaping the financial benefits of immigration" that's a good one!

The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) estimates that in 2002 illegal alien households imposed costs of $26 billion on the federal government and paid $16 billion in federal taxes, creating an annual net fiscal deficit of $10.4 billion at the federal level, or $2,700 per household.2

Among the largest federal costs, were Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison/court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

How many "heinous criminals" of the caliber you're describing (thanks for the source on that, by the way) are willing to wash dishes at a Chili's in Green Bay or Matteson or Des Moines for minimum wage? "Hey, if this cartel thing doesn't work out for me, I think I'll head on up to the Heartland and bus some tables at Red Lobster. Who doesn't love coming home smelling like shrimp and stale cooking oil? Or, I know, I'll shovel snow for some apartment complexes. I haven't had a decent backache in YEARS!"

How many "heinous criminals" were born and bred in the U.S.? I could post "literally hundred" of stories of American atrocities. Are you really judging an entire country by the worst acts of a tiny fraction of its people? I hate it when people do that to the U.S., don't you? I mean, we're not all ignorant, racist, gun-toting, science-denying, meth-dealing, date-raping child murderers with bad grammar and halitosis, but some of us are. But I sure hate it when I go to Mexico or Canada or Europe and the locals think I do those things. Gets in the way of our friendship.

Couple things, Thomas. First off, it's clear you've never met a soul who's been in this country illegally because you have a talk radio idea of how it all goes down. Second, the difference is that I don't NEED to overstay a visa in any other country because I HAVE a nice place to live. I HAVE health insurance. I am underemployed, but not so desperate that I NEED to leave my home, my family, and my friends to move thousands of miles away for a shot at a living wage. (However, I wouldn't mind some of that Canadian education for my kids. This country isn't prioritizing education as much as I'd like).

Think about it: If you lived near the Caribbean Sea next to Mayan ruins and could have ceviche or mole every day, would you think, "Gee, I think I'll move to Illinois. I don't speak much English and I don't have a parka (in fact, I have no idea what a parka is), but darnit! I've just got to ride the L! Besides, seeing one's kids grow up is overrated." No, Thomas, you wouldn't.

I'm afraid that I owe you an apology, Denise. I was just reminded that my family uses the services of a business which, most probably, employs illegal aliens.
In the past I've not given this situation much thought; but maybe now is the time that I do a better job of practicing what I preach. jms

JMS, I think this marks the first time in argument thread history that someone (from the other side of the debate) has acknowledged that I made a valid point. Thank you. I do think however, that it's impossible to not be an accomplice of undocumented immigration in some way. That would mean every restaurant and store we buy food from would not have an ingredient that wasn't picked or grown or shipped by companies that don't use undocumented labor (let alone the restaurant and store employing them themselves). Plus, so many construction companies contract out, and many of them use undocumented labor (plus, how can we know that the materials used to construct the buildings weren't manufactured and shipped using undocumented labor?)

I think the only way to solve the problem lies in Mexico. With all of their natural resources and industry, there is no reason the country should be so poor.

I try not to "aid and abet" the Illegal's by cutting my own grass and washing my own car.

I wish your coworkers the best of luck.