Mary,

Excellent point. Let them go on strike. I agree, There are plenty of new graduates with new ideas that would love a job, not to mention the out of work teachers. They wore red to make a point? United We Stand. What is that about? If they strike, I will lose all respect for them. That is a cowards way out. It's time for the teachers to realize they no longer get everything handed over to them because people are afraid of a strike. I'm sure if you looked at their contract you would find they are getting a bunch of sweet deals that the rest of us can only dream about. That is unless you have a government job.

Actually Mary they do in fact send kids on to very prestigious universities. However with their experiment with the curriculum by Ms. (Physics First) Williams it is likely to be less. My student just wasted a year of science last year thanks to her experiment. You should also know that 228 has an inordinate amount of administrators when compared to the state average. The legal fees of this district seem to have no restraints but the board is happy with sending this money to the finance committee chair's son's law firm as long as they get to hire their friends and neighbors. I'd much rather pay for a great teacher than waste money on admin/legal fees. How many people talk about the great administrators they had in school?

Taxpayer: That's your opinion on Physics First. My child had that years ago and it was wonderful.

I can't find anyone to tell me how a student is going to complete a physics class without the math.

Mary, do you know where our administration went to school? Do you know how many of our board members have a degree? There's a reason they don't make that info easy to find. When you consider how educated our leadership is, the kids that are doing well owe much of it to the teachers. Which many put that info on their school website.

So what would prefer to do here learn about how the district gave 11% increases to administration and now want to cut from the teachers. Education is about learning all the facts not just the facts you think are true! Private sector is hurting and Taxpayers are hurting, not because of Public Employees, but because Politicians and Administrations refuse to do their jobs!

I will tell you that if you look at teaching and educations as just another burden on the taxpayers then we are all lost anyway! I would hope with all your concerns about the state of public sector jobs and public pensions you jump into the election process join the school board and correct all these inconsistent actions!

Since education is the key to improving our world investment in education should give us all a quicker payback then investing in tax cuts to the highest 1% Folks!
Pay for Education now or pay for Incarceration later!

Do really need all this overhead?

http://bhsd228.schoolwires.net/cms/lib6/IL01001099/Centricity/Domain/27/AdminSalBen4Web1112.pdf

YIKES!!! The third highest salary on this page was the AD at Oak Forest!!!! Every single salary on that page is higher than mine and I have 20 years experience in my position and a master's degree......guess I should have been a teacher!

Who wouldn't like a pension?

How many years was the AD there?

To:phxdr

The firefighter wasn't in uniform was he? I would think that would be against some kind of law. On the other hand, if he lives in town, why shouldn't he go door to door for Kuspa as a resident of the community?

You need to get the facts straight. They are not asking for anything more.

I was referring to the fact that the pensions will be an added expense. The State doesn't want to cover the cost of them anymore, they want the local districts to handle it now. How much is that going to cost? That has to be thought about.

2 things
1. You should count again. You must be no good at Where's Waldo.
2. Ha! You said black staff.

BS I have no problem with what you think because you at least took the time to find out about the issue. I may agree with parts of what youre saying but lets agree that there are way to many people that make silly uninformed comment only because they can do it with very little effort? You have also made my point for me as far as a private sector business is different from a public service the check out some of the public service budgets in the area and you will find that just about all of them have around 80% of the budget spent on saleries. Think of your tax dollars as paying for insurance that your community continues to be a nice place to raise your kids and for them to raise theirs.

Oh the teachers work day id state mandated they do not have control over the number of hours that they teach. The school day used to start at 9 and end at 3 when you and went to school BS that only 6 hours that included lunch and recess. So how is the number of minutes in the school day a surprise to you? Now kids start as early as 7 and most 8 in high school and go until 3. Looking at my kids schedule most of the core teachers probably teach 4 to 5 classes per day with a lunch and plan period mixed in there. Are you angry because you didnt choose to be a teacher? You chose to do what you do so make the most of it, dont be so angry. Let the school elected school board and the teachers figure it out. Plus if you think about it BS you may be at your job for 8 hours but how much of that is actually working on something?

God bless you Mary, I told you it would be hard at first.

@Lou
You said it yourself, "check out some of the public service budgets in the area and you will find that just about all of them have around 80% of the budget spent on salaries"
The public service (union) employees do not generate any income. They rely on tax dollars to pay those salaries. The tax dollars will not increase unless you raise taxes in the district. My taxes have gone up just under 5% a year for the last three years running. I can't afford to keep paying higher taxes as an "insurance that my community continues to be a nice place to raise my kids and for them to raise theirs."
My community is not a nicer place to live than it was when my taxes were lower, in fact, just the opposite. As the taxes have gone up, I have seen more empty houses and foreclosures. I have seen more Section 8 (tax dollar supported) people moving in. These are not the kind of things that make for a nice place for my kids.

Obviously no black teachers chose to support the union. Did you think of that? Maybe the black teachers think that what the union is asking for is excessive. I don't think the picture represents a huge percentage of the teachers employed there.

Nestor,

Excellent comment. That is exactly what needs to happen.

Are those kind of comments the kind that a productive member of sociaty makes? THINK before you choose sides. Find me a business where salery doesnt take up 80% of a budget. You can always vote for new school board members, but that would mean that you have to get out and vote, so... Yeah that's not going to happen. Oh and teachers making more money means that they can buy things that will create more jobs. 30% of those new jobs will be created in another country of course, probably a country where they do not pay teachers very much money. Maybe that is where are anger should really be. I vote for no strike and give the teachers what other teachers in comparable districts make. Here is an idea lets then give them a little more and hold them to higher standard, because that is what I want for kid.

I think most readers agree with Ed, not your BS.

I have managed businesses for over 20 years and NONE of them paid out 80% of their budget for salaries. No business can survive when you budget that much for salaries.
Schools are not a business, they generate no revenue other than the taxes paid by the people that live in their district.
The only way for the schools to increase their revenue is to raise taxes. If you feel that another tax hike is something that you want then stand by the teachers.
I am tired of my taxes going up to support the public unions, I mean police, fire, teachers, and government workers, at a level that is better than what the private sector can get.
Did you know that District 228 employees get 15 paid sick days a year? Do you get that at your job? Did you know the teachers are limited to teaching only 275 minutes a day? That is less than a 5 hour work day. How many hours in your work day? Did you know that a family medical insurance plan with dental costs less than $2100 a year? How much do you pay for your health plan?
You notice that I have not called anyone fat or racist, I am just pointing out how good they have it already.
I am curious, what would happen to your job if you decided to go on strike?

TOTBS, do you really think that teachers go home along with the students when the final bell rings? Let the son of two of those "greedy union teachers" educate you.

Most of them are also coaches in sports or leading other extracurricular activities. And because they do that, they take their work (grading papers, etc.) home with them. Plus, they often have to spend their own money to buy the materials they need for the classroom.

@Mike Fangman
The teachers that stay after to coach sports or lead other extracurricular activities get paid for that.
I have 1 son in high school and 1 son in grade school and I think by the time I pay for all the supplies that they are expected to bring for the class to use and the fees to register them, I will have spent close to $800.00 on top of the taxes that I already pay.

Hey BS, do you think there might be some relation between public employees remaining unionized and receiving a larger salary with more benefits then their de-unionized private counterparts?

The benefits of teachers are not that ridiculous when compared to other countries, they just stand out because US workers in the private sector have less benefits. Workers in Germany can get up to 6 weeks of paid sick leave* and the Germans are still holding up the Eurozone with the strength of their economy. If workers don't get that at their job the answer is to organize and demand it, just like teachers have done. As a business owner, you probably oppose unions though.

The solution should not be to tear down existing benefits. Higher tax rates can only accomplish so much, especially in 228 which isn't especially well-off. A better solution would be to get rid of the backwards property taxation system that funds US education. Poor communities can never hope to match the facilities of rich communities in that system. A statewide system of funding may remove some local control, and would heavily opposed by upper-class communities, but would provide more equal foundation for students.

*http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/paid-sick-days-2009-05.pdf

Lou,

You are correct, teachers went to college, obtained degrees, should know how to act in a professional manner. Does threatening to strike seem professional? Seems to me as if they are saying if we don't get what we want, we go home. Does that mean that just because they are teachers they deserve anything different than any other working professional? I don't think so. Among my classmates, I don't know of any that get an annual increase, a step increase and a cost of living raise. Do you? On top of that, most professionals are evaluated on the job they do and their raise is reflective of that evaluation. Not true for teachers. Show up, get a raise, oh, wait, get three. I think at a point in the past, things were implemented to bring teachers in line in regards to compensation. It has gotten out of control though. I don't think anyone berates teachers, police, fire, or any other public servant. I just think that the time has come that they receive the same type of salary/benefits that every other working professional receives.

I doubt any of these teachers are working second or third jobs. They may work during the summer, but that is during their time off. 185 days a year. That's it people. As someone else pointed out, a day isn't even really a day either.

I like the comment from the Chicago Teacher's Union President where she said they weren't interested in merit raises. What does that tell you?

Mike Fangman:

I don't know where your parents teach. Try going to the high school before dismissal you will find teachers running to the parking to beat the kids out. Elementary Districts may be a different story. I disagree that "most" coach something. How many teachers are there vs coaching opportunities? That's their choice. They aren't doing that for free either, they are getting paid. Take home papers to grade? I take home work on average 3 nights out of 5. What would my boss say if I complained about it? This is a two headed coin. When people comment on the fact that they feel teachers' salaries are too high, teacher respond with a statement such as you should have been a teacher. Works here too, bringing home papers to grade? Shouldn't have been a teacher.

Well said Bob. Im fed up with paying for insurance that I never use but that 1 day when I might just need it makes it all worth it. I am also not a teacher.

@Bob Laird
I guess I am one of the lucky ones.
American students rank 25th in math and 21st in science when compared to students in the top 30 industrialized nations.
At the end of 8th grade, American students are 2 years behind in the math being studied by their peers in other countries.
70% of 8th graders in America can't read at their grade level and most will never catch up. http://broadeducation.org/about/crisis_stats.html
I don't think the teachers are doing that great of a job educating the people who will take over when we are gone.
I don't mind paying taxes when I see results, in this case, I don't see the results that we should expect for the money paid.
With the results that we are receiving for our tax dollars I find it amazing that they feel that they have earned a raise.

Bob- At that same logic the Meijer cashier did a great job at checking me out the other day...they should go on strike and ask for a couple thousand more a year. The difference in the private sector and the public sector are night and day. If Meijer raises its prices to pay its cashiers more they will screw themsleves even though they may be union because Jewel and others will keep them in line(high pay means high cost). The free market will keep things in balance.

Public sector jobs like firefighters, police, teachers work for the public. As such there is no competition because spineless elected officials are in the pockets of the unions such as Blago and Quinn. The unions get them votes while the officials get them $. Right here in Oak Forest we had firefighter union members going door to door asking to vote for Kuspa. Think Kuspa will take care of them?

The problem is that Kuspa is not there to work for the firefighters as he is there to see to it that the taxpayer gets the best bang for his-her buck. This is why we are partly in the situation we are in with the pensions. Teachers, firefighters and cops need to come into the real world.

They are NOT entitled to their jobs! If they do not like the pay they are free to leave. They are NOT doing the public favors...we all work tough jobs. Comed linemen have 3 times the danger in their jobs then cops and firefighters as do many other jobs. It needs to be stated "here is the pay, don't like it leave".

What district do you teach in Lou?

I am not a teacher.

So BS you have seen every union crew of laborers, road workers, city employees, and you know they are lazy no good workers .You are very foolish in your generalizations.BS you need to get off your judgmental horse. I'll bet you never worked a day in your life on one of those hot black topping road crews.Have you ever worked on a crew digging up a broken water main?Maybe you saw someone taking a break or a rest ,whatever it doesn't justify condemning the majority of union workers. I could make the same generalizations about white collar workers,because I went into an office and all the workers were on break, chatting on the phones, playing on the internet, throwing paper airplanes, and reading magazines, but I won't because what i saw, is just a snapshot of work in a workplace.
What do unions have to do with choosing superintendents for schools?I thought that was a management position hired by the school board.

@Russ
As I have lived in the Chicagoland area most of my life, I was able to use my vast experience of road crew observation to make my point. I sat on 294 for over two years watching various crews do what they did. It always seemed to me that while some might actually work hard, there was always an equal number of "workers" that did little to nothing in the time that I was able to see them. Being stuck in traffic gives you a lot of time to watch.
I have held jobs in the construction field from hot tar roofing to carpentry. One thing I noticed was the non-union shops used less men to do the same job, but these were private unions that bid jobs and earned a profit.
Public unions are funded by the public. Public unions don't turn a profit. Public unions need tax dollars to pay for every raise. I am tired of paying more taxes for public union employees to get raises and more benefits.
I know that there are a lot of public union workers that work hard. So do I, but when I want a raise or better benefits, I earn it through better sales and a higher profit for the owner. What do you think would happen to your or my job if we went on strike?
Right now is not a good time for people that rely on taxes for their salary to be asking for more. There are a lot of people that can't give more.

Lou, excellent comments,
Mary look over here, I agree with Lou.
I being a former union member, will never understand why a some people on the outside think union members that strike are fat(not that fat is wrong)lazy and deserve to get fired for even the thought of a strike.The threat of a strike is a gut wrenching moment for union members, many unions do not have strike funds, and watching scabs come in to take over your job is tough, pretty hard to go get a part time job to cover the normal living expenses but a necessary tool for negotiations.Most companies would rather settle than deal with a strike.Overall it disrupts business even with temporary workers or teachers.Teachers do worry about how a strike impacts their students but, wouldn't they do a better job teaching if they didn't have to worry about not having enough income from their jobs to support their families future education and their future retirement plans?
Why do school districts go out to California or New York or wherever, to get ceo type superintendents, but they don't want to spend money on those that are doing the actual teaching?

Lou,

Time for you to get up out of your mama's basement and go see what's happening out in the world.

There is medication you can take.

@ Russ
We don't think that union workers that strike are fat and lazy. We think that there are a lot of fat, lazy people that are in unions.
Have you ever seen a union paving crew at "work"? A crew of somewhere around ten with only 3 or 4 actually working. The rest are sitting in a truck or holding a sign or "supervising" the others. That does not include the union representatives that don't do any actual work.
You say that many unions don't have a strike fund. I wonder how much unions spend on political contributions so the union will get preferential treatment from the politicians that they support. Couldn't that money be better spent within the union rather than being used to pay for some political ad?
All that aside, I have no problem with PRIVATE sector unions. It is when the PUBLIC sector unions want to have more pay and better benefits than the PUBLIC that pays their salaries that I start to get upset.
As far as why school districts go out to California or New York to get CEO types to be superintendents and pay the ridiculous salaries, I guess you need to ask the unions why that happens. I don't think you will get an answer.

Russ,

Here is the problem I have with your statement, "a necessary tool for negotiations.Most companies would rather settle than deal with a strike", So do you think that is the attitude of the teachers? We aren't getting what we want, so we will strike and they will give us what we want because they would rather settle than deal with a strike?

I think that is sad if that is true. Why can't they keep talking? Come to an agreement that works for everyone? I think there should be a public hearing. They need to hear from those that will be paying all these salaries before they make this decision.

Well stated.

1. Do/did you send your kids to public schools or do you plan to?

2. Did you go to a public school?

Here are my answers to those questions:

1. I don't have any kids, but if I did I'd send them to public schools. Tuition for private/parochial schools is too damn high. Also, one of the major factors for my sister and brother-in-law moving from Evergreen Park to Orland was the public schools in Orland.

2. Yes I did. I graduated from the Chicago High School for Agricultural Sciences, which is a Chicago Public School.

Dane- So in other words if they demand 200,000 a year you are ok with it? Listen, I have total respect for teachers and feel I have been fortunate to have some of the best. Having these great teachers does not change the fact of being greedy. What excuse do you use to justify these high salaries for these teachers who are already paid very well when compared to the rest of the area?

That they work hard? LOTS OF PEOPLE PAYING THEIR PAYCHECKS WORK HARD! That they deal with a lot of brats? No one held a gun to their heads and made them take the jobs! If you feel this way, you go ahead and write your property tax bill out for double the usual amount to the District.

Dane,

So if they FEEL they aren't getting paid enough, even though the don't have to substantiate any results, we just give them what they want? If you work, try that. I work hard. I don't think I am paid adequately. I am going to go in and tell my boss I expect to be paid X and not be evaluated. that will fly.

I don't think the administration received a double digit raise. Propaganda and you bit. Excellent point on the PAC's though. That is probably why the pension question hasn't been addressed.

You are right, they have a chance to get what they think they deserve. If they don't, they don't. Move on. Go someplace else and try to get it. But no, their plan is to hold our children hostage and stop teaching them.

So if that is a FACT - Why are all the Teacher haters not jumping down the throats of the Administration and School Board? I don't get how this is a consistent policy for this disitrict! Give the Leaders a DOUBLE DIGIT Raise and ask the workers on the line to just suck it up!! I know we are working the new math here, but it just does not compute! Public Serivce budgets are all mostly salaries, so if you want to save from Salaries and Benefits expense - You do that from the whole, not just a part!!

Gerard- Read my comments...I don't think I am a "teacher hater". I am for common sense and common sense for me says the taxpayer can not continue to pay this much. If those in the adminstration are getting 11% raises, it is a major problem that needs to be addressed. In fact I would be willing to go one step further.

Take the 11% away from the administration (superintendent, principals, board) and give 5% to the teachers in the form of raises and the other 6% back to the taxpayers.

There is nothing wrong with collective bargaining for FAIR wages and working conditions. What is Fair? Is it fair for the public unions, including police and fire, to expect the communities that pay them to just keep giving more?
As far as the union working class bringing this country to its knees if they wanted to, I think that is already happening.

@BS Do you have children of school age? If so, do you send them to school while you run your 'business'? How much have you paid in taxes? Does your 'business' benefit from police protection? Roads? Sidewalks? If you think teachers are being paid too much, then keep your kids at home and educate them yourself. Then you can teach them all you selfish BS philosophies. The teachers aren't asking for more money nor more benefits as you continue to infer. Read the information.

I have to disagree with that since there is no way Social Security will ever pay me the same percentage of my salary that teachers get when they retire. Not even close!!

DOC, You didn't pay in as much, either. But my point is that "pensions" are in lieu of Social Security, not in addition to SS. Many people don't realize that.

This is true but we should also not allow them to rape the public through taxes in order to pay their outrageous salaries and benefits.

As far as im concerned the school board should let them know that their last offer was final... If they want to strike so be it. When they go on strike hire replacements for all those who did strike and the strike is then moot, because the rooms would be fully staffed and these 9 month a year employees will be standing there collecting NO check and No benefits.